The testimony of the Quran is that it is in entire agreement with the Taurat in that the children of Israel are exalted above the rest of mankind by God and that He raised amongst this race prophets and messengers. It testifies that through the race of Israel the world would be blessed in the culmination of the the Messiah, the Word of God.

In this brief study of the relevant verses of the Quran we may conclude that no gift of prophecy or revelation lies in the seed of Ishmael as the Quran itself states, as we will see that Ishmael is lost sight of, and cut off from the prophetical line. We do however recognise that in one passage, Sura Maryam 19:54, we do find this verse: “And remember Ishmael, who was true to his promise; and he was a messenger and a prophet.” How the Quran comes to this conclusion when he is outside the race of prophets can only be explained as a symptom of trying to wedge his descendent Muhammad into a line to which he did not belong.

The Offering of Ishmael or Isaac?

“And (Abraham) said, Verily I am going to my Lord who will direct me: O Lord, grant unto me a righteous (issue). Whereupon We gave him the promise of a meek youth. And when he had grown up to be a helper to him, Abraham said, O my son, verily, I saw in a dream that I should offer thee in sacrifice; consider therefore what thou seest fit to be done. He said, O my father, do as thou art commanded; thou shalt find me, if God pleases, one of the resigned. So when they had submitted themselves, and Abraham had laid his son prostrate on his face, We cried unto him, O Abraham, verily thou hast verified the vision: thus do We reward the good. Truly this was a manifest trial. And We ransomed him with a noble victim. And We left for him (this blessing) by the latest posterity: Peace be on Abraham! Thus do We reward the righteous, for he was one of Our faithful servants. And We gave him the good tidings of the promise of Isaac, a righteous prophet; and We blessed him and Isaac. And of their offspring there were righteous doers, and others that manifestly injured their own souls.” ( Al Saffat 37:95-109)

Present day Muslims hold that it was Ishmael, and not Isaac, who was offered for sacrifice. however, there are a variety of opinions. Amongst those that held it was Isaac who was offered were the chief Companions: Umar, Ali, Abbas, Ibn Masud, Ka’b the Jew, and eight others. In favour of Ishmael is the younger generation such as the sons of Abbas and Umar, etc. Those who say it was Ishmael, place the sacrifice at Mina; those who say Isaac, in Syria and Jerusalem; When Abraham departed from his native land to Syria, he begged for a righteous offspring, and Isaac was granted to him; the only son promised to Abraham (“We gave him the promise of a meek youth”). This same son is mentioned as growing up and the same was taken for sacrifice. After the account of the sacrifice, the passage ends as it refers once again to that same son as a righteous prophet; the blessing being awarded for his steadfast faith and patience in the sacrifice. According to this understanding the passage can refer to none other than Isaac.

 

Israel favoured among all nations and above the seed of Ishmael

“O children of Israel! Remember the favour wherewith I have favoured you and preferred you above all nations (or all creatures)” (Al Baqarrah 2:44)

In this verse Allah calls to mind His former benefits to the Children of Israel as a reason for why they should not now refuse to obey His prophet Muhammad. Muslim commentators say that Israel was superior to all creatures, but only in one thing, that is, in the favour bestowed upon them, not in anything else. They hurry to mention that this was conferred only on the believing part of the nation for the rebellious were turned into apes and swine, and cursed of God. They were to remember with thankfulness and obedience the favour which was bestowed on their forefathers in the world of their time.

The conclusion must not be drawn that now God’s favour was on the seed of Ishmael as the more favoured race, for if a prophet was to arise of the seed of Ishmael, greater than any prophet of the seed of Israel, how then could it have been said that “We have favoured” the latter beyond all the world, including at that moment the seed of Ishmael?

Abraham’s godly seed does not include Ishmael

“And We gave to him (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and both of them We directed aright.”

Muslim commentators are uncomfortable that they find here no mention of Ishmael in this passage. They therefore give the explanation that Ishmael is not mentioned with Isaac and Jacob because the Quran is speaking of the long line of descent of the prophets of Israel. They continue to say that as Muhammad came from Ishmael it was not suitable to mention him on this occasion but he is later mentioned but in quite another connection.

Surely, the object in naming Isaac and Jacob was to indicate the progeny of Abraham from whose line prophets should arise. As there is an absence of Ishmael’s name then the text suggests that no prophet would arise from amongst his descendents. We are told Muhammad is the greatest of all prophets from out of Abraham so why no mention of him here?

 

Honours are awarded to Isaac and Jacob not to Ishmael

“And when he (Abraham) had separated himself from them, and from that which they worshipped beside God, We gave him Isaac and Jacob; and We made them both prophets;

and We granted unto them (benefits of) our mercy; and We granted unto them a lofty tongue of truth.” (Maryam 19:49)

Again we find no mention of Ishmael whereas high honours are paid to Isaac and Jacob. When Abraham departed to the holy land God gave him a son and a grandson to live with him and made them both prophets these alone are mentioned as God’s gift to Abraham, as the root and ancestry from which the race of prophets sprang.

The gift of prophecy to be found in the line of Isaac and Jacob not in Ishmael

“And We gave him Isaac and Jacob; and We placed among his descendants the gift of prophecy and the Scriptures;

and We gave him his reward in this world, and in that to come he shall be one of the righteous.” (Al Ankabut 29:25)

Ishmael was one of Abraham’s children but why was he not once again with Isaac and Jacob? The Quran recognises that Isaac and Jacob were the root and ancestry of the race of the prophets, and from them was to spring Him in whom “all the nations of the earth would be blessed” (Genesis 22:18, 26:4; 28:14); further, Isaac was the child of promise (as we see both in the Taurat and Quran), according to the angelic message to Abraham and Sarah, whereas Ishmael was born of the bondservant Hagar, without promise or heavenly message. Again, the promise of the gift of prophecy to the seed of Abraham, in immediate connection with the mention of Isaac and Jacob as progeny given by covenant to Abraham, is in strong contrast with the absence of any such promise in passages where Ishmael is named.

Further honours awarded to Isaac and Jacob but not to Ishmael

“And We bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob as an additional gift; and We made all of them righteous persons; We made them also leaders, that they might guide others by Our command.

And We inspired them to do good works, the observance of prayer, and the giving of alms; and they served Us.” (Al Anbia 21:69, 70)

This is now the fourth text gathered from different parts of the Quran where each excels that which preceded it in the grandeur of the blessings bestowed on Abraham and his two sons. The Quran recognises along with the Taurat the blessings Isaac and Jacob obtained from God:

1) We guided them aright

2) We made them all prophets

3) We committed to their progeny the gift of prophecy and the Scriptures

4) And all of them We made righteous.

Surely, if Ishmael had been a partaker with Isaac in the promised blessing, his name would have appeared somewhere in connection with it. Here in this section the same conclusion is drawn that Ishmael is not alluded to as the progenitor of any from whom a prophetical race would arise. He must therefore be excluded from the promise given to the patriarch.

 

Muhammad told to remember Abraham, Isaac and Jacob

“And remember Our servants, Abraham, and Isaac and Jacob, men strenuous and prudent. Verily, We purified them with a perfect purification, through remembrance of the life to come. And they were in Our sight chosen men and good. And remember Ishmael and Elisha and Dhul Kefl, all good men.(Sura 38: vv 43-46).

Muslim commentators say that Muhammad is told to remember Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for their power in God’s service, their insight in spiritual things, and excellent works. This is now the fifth verse in which Ishmael is not mentioned as being of the family of Abraham. How is it that God bids Muhammad to remember Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their virtue, knowledge and grace, and not a word of his progenitor Ishmael, who is spoken of as if he “belonged to another generation,” and not to Abraham at all?

Then we read of Ishmael whose inclusion is not alongside the family of Abraham but linked with Elisha and Dhul Kefl:“Remember Ishmael, Elisha, and Dhul Kefl, all good men.” Elisha lived some one thousand years after Ishmael and they are linked with Dhul Kefl who is said to have belonged to a different race completely from the Prophets. It is to be especially noted that the Prophet of Islam is here desired to “remember” the three patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, without any reference to Ishmael, who had no claim to be associated with them. This is in complete accord with the promise already quoted from the Taurat that in their line the whole earth should be blessed.

40 Responses to “Ishmael not in prophetic line”

  • Laudia:

    Admin,I want to learn about how the Muslims claim Ishmael was the son to be sacrified and not Isaac ,because the bible tells me otherwise pls reply me and email me if possible

    • admin:

      You will no doubt be aware that the Bible and the Quran differ on so many issues and this is just one that has had important ramifications. For example Muslims believe Ishmael was a prophet and an apostle who taught the Islamic way of prayer (Salat) and practised the Islamic form of alms zakat (Maryam 19:54,55). He was also said to have constructed the Ka’aba with Abraham (Al-Baqarrah 2: 127). Apart from this his name is listed along with other individuals who are considered to be prophets by Muslims.

      Muslims claim that Muhammad is descended from Ishmael’s second son Kedar (Genesis 25:13) however, Muslim historians admit the pedigree which follows a certain ‘Adnan is uncertain – various divergent genealogical tables are cited.

      In respect of who was the intended son to be sacrificed the Quran is silent and the decision has been left to famous historical Muslim commentators on the Quran. The oldest tradition from Muhammad’s companions and their successors indicate no difference from the Bible but later commentators and theologians claim the intended sacrifice was Ishmael. These commentators are so highly respected that their views became absorbed into Islamic thinking.

      As to why they have taken this path we can only conclude that Muhammad did not himself know which son of Abraham was the intended victim and later theologians have used it for apologetical purposes. Muhammad’s familiarity with Genesis seems to be lacking on this point. It seems following generations have moved over to Ishamel as he was the oldest son who helped Abraham re-build the Ka’aba, was a prophet and is considered to the ancestor of the northern Arab tribes through whom Muhammad came. This creates consistency even if it is not the truth.

      It is important we remain faithful to the clear details of the Bible which enumerate the account of Isaac and Ishmael in considerable detail The biblical teaching of the covenant promises coming through Isaac are either ignored or rejected because it fails to confirm the Muslim agenda.

  • Faraz:

    My name is Faraz and I m a 15 years old guy from Pakistan, I ve recently finish reading the bible, both old and new testament, I read the protestant books, King James and new revised edition and I ve many questions to ask, it s my little request to message me on my gmail, faraz.aj.21742@gmail.com and discuss points with me their, my main consern is trinity,how Jesus wasn t the begotten son of God and How Muhammed was prophecies in both old and new testament
    I ll list a few here
    Deutoromy 18 1 saying, O people of Isreal your Lord will raise a prophet like me amongst your brotherin and will put His words in his moutn
    So this clearly tells us that the prophwt will not be from a jews, it will not be from Issac, instead it will be from their brother and Ishmeal was the brother of isaac, secondly their were many common things, like both nphave natural birth and death, both were married and have children, both were the kings of their state, where Jesus said that my kingdom isn t for this world, both bring new laws,Jesus says that Think not I ve come here to destroy any law or prophet but I ve come to fulfill, both were migrated, both have Spiritual as well as Physical victory, as the conquest of Makkah and the defeat of Pharoh, both were accepted by their people before death and in all these cases Jesus was different
    So now Christian say that the Messiah and the prophet are same Jesus, but Gospel of John tells us different, when the Jesus came, they ask him about elijah, he say that John the baptist is the Elijah, when they went to him, they ask three different questions, are thou Christ, he said no, are thou Elijah, he said no, we leave this to Christian that who was right because we believe in both of them and none of the prophetcan be wrong, the third and the most important question was ate thou that prophet, he again said no, so three things can be obtained that Mesiah will be different, the prophet will be different and the elijah will be different, they can t be aame,third Gospel of John tells us about the comforter to come after Jesus,Christian says that it refers to Holy spirit but it refers to Mohammed how, first of ll the word is paraclikos, meaning the praise worthy, in arabic it means ahe,ed,the second name of Mohammed, Jesus said that I ve many things to say unto you but ye can t bare them now, for when he the spirit of truth shall come, he ll guide you unto all truths, he shall not speak of his own but what he hears, he shall glorify me, point to be noted here, the spirit isn t human, so for it, it would ve been used, not he, but here is, he,he,he secondly we know that the spirit was already in the world at the time of Elizabeth p, at the time of John the baptist, but it says that he ll come, it also say what Deutoromy say that he ll not speak of his own, so the deutoromy and this verse mention the same person secondly Jesus say that I ll not leave you alone, I ll ask the father to send you a comforter who ll abide with you forever, so the cpmforter will come, he isn t already their, secomdly Quran days that Holy Prophet teachings are for eternity and will remain with you forever,

    I ve many more points to discuss but for that you ve to message me

    • admin:

      OK Faraz – I have your e-mail which we are replying to privately – some of your points may be helpful to others who visit this site along with our responses. So if you feel you would like to challenge our beliefs on any aspect of our site or even on new material then we would be happy to hear from you.

      • Faraz:

        Dear Admin, well I hope that you remember me, well you haven t replied to my latest mail yet, and I ve one more question, well as you know that my latest mail was on crucification, I would like you to reply me on my gmail and discuss things as we were doing

        Kind regards
        Faraz

        • admin:

          Hello Faraz – well we only received it late last night and have its only mid-day now – anyway I sent the reply to your private e-mail and just in case there is a problem I will copy it here so others can see. I have put your comments in “inverted commas” followed by my reply.

          “Sir, you haven t provide a single verse that prove trinity”: ——– well that’s not entirely true for one of the fundamental aspects of the Trinity is the deity of Christ which was presented very clearly to you. I said I would leave the Holy Spirit to a later occasion – its a big subject. — So should you wish to challenge me you need to deny and explain away those passages and many others that show Jesus is not God manifest in the flesh. – Please re-read my earlier e-mail which mentions matters relating to his deity – I did ask you to comment but you have chosen not to do so for some reason. I will not provide similar verses until I can see you are genuine in wanting to deal with the biblical text. Remember the deity of Christ only became conceptualised after the resurrection and ascension into heaven.
          The crucified Jesus: You are doing exactly the same as you did with the verses referring to the deity of Christ i.e.- ignoring anything that does not support your argument. This is a very poor approach to any piece of literature let alone the Bible. I suspect you have not got these verses from your own personal reading but from booklets like the late Ahmad Deedat’s booklet “Crucifixion or Crucifiction.” You may even be an Ahmadiyyan Muslim yourself but I know such thinking has been widely distributed amongst the broader Muslim community.

          “Jesus Christ he didn’t die for our sins, did he? He never said it nor was he crucified”: ———– Of course he died on the cross. All the gospels agree: Matthew 27:50; Mark 15:37; Luke 23:46; John 19:30 – the gospel writers state that Jesus predicted his death when he spoke to them about his journey to Jerusalem and his disciples preached Jesus Christ who was crucified but is now alive. Jesus in his agony recalled Psalm 22:1 and expressed his distress by the quotation “Aloi, Aloi, Lamasabakhtani, Oh God Oh God why has you forsaken me”

          “Coming to the death of Jesus, we Muslims believe that he was raised by God and a person of same face was put in his place”: — – there is no agreement amongst Muslims scholars as to who’s identity or who’s face it was that was switched – the whole thing is nonsense. In the old days Muslims used to look for support for their ideas from the ‘Gospel of Barnabas’ but this has long since been proved to be a fraudulent document. ———- Sura e Nisa 4:157 is the only verse in the whole of the Quran that mentions the crucifixion “they did not kill him, neither did they crucify him, but it was made to appear so, and all those who differ their-in are full of doubts, with a no certain knowledge for a surety they kill him not” —– this is Islam’s starting point making the crucifixion into a lie 600 years later thanks to the evidence sent by the Islamic Gabriel!! There is no historical support, no evidence of any sort how sad.

          “Proof that he didn’t die on cross 22 errors in Bible”: – You can’t expect me to go through them all but I will make a start. You seem keen to talk about the resurrection body (which you don’t believe in) so I will only respond as it concerns the subject of the crucifixion; keeping our focus.
          Firstly you deny the resurrection of Jesus because it does not fit into your agenda – if you had really read the New Testament for yourself you would have realised it is a major theme.

          “Matthew 19:16, 17: says that a person can obtain salvation by obtaining the law and commandments” – yes this is correct, if anyone is able to keep God’s laws without sinning he would be sinless – the point is all have sinned and therefore the cross becomes necessary. Jesus, who was without sin alone was able to fulfill the law and its commandments.

          “Luke 24:36” this is one of those places where you seem to get carried away with the spiritual body – that is not our subject- If you bothered to read the account before the actual meal you will find disciples of Jesus discussing how he was handed over to rulers and sentenced to death and crucified yet for some reason you ignore these facts and just seek to try and prove your theory. (Luke 24:17-24)

          “Luke 24: 39,40 You write : “Behold my hand and feet, it is I myself, handle me and see as the spirit has no flesh and bone – So what is he trying to prove by showing his hands and feet, was he trying to say that he was spirit? Or was he resurrected? No, he was proving them that he did not die, that he was by himself, that he wasn t resurrected” ————- this is a continuation of the same situation and event that leads up to the table-meal mentioned above – the writer Luke does not artistically have to say he was crucified in every paragraph he has already done so as I pointed out in Luke 24:17-24 howver he adds at the conclusion of these verses: “Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day” (Luke 24:45,46). Again you chose not to mention this.

          “Mark 16 :1 Mary Magdalene goes to massage Jesus, to anoint him” – there is a world of difference between massage and anointing – You will find the Roman authorities through their soldiers discovered that Jesus was dead so they laid him in the tomb and the ladies came to anoint him – which was the normal practice of the Jews in that time (John 19:39,40) – that is why they went to the tomb – the point is Jesus was dead (Mark 15:44,45) – they had to delay the anointing because Jews kept the Sabbath very strictly and this prevented them going to the tomb.

          “Mark 16: 4 – So the question is that why the stone was removed and why the winding sheets were unwound and placed in a pile?” The text does not tell us who tidied up – what it does say is that Jesus rose from the dead for the angel spoke to Mary Magdalene and said “Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.” (Mark 16:6) ———– you can’t get clear than that!

          OK just one more, the next from your list and that will be enough —
          “John 20:15” once again deals with the resurrected body, which you do not believe, however the surrounding verses John 19:1-37 go into great detail about the events and circumstances of the crucifixion ———– your theories have no place in the careful accounts presented by the Gospel writers. The basis of the resurrection is that Christ rose from the dead – Islam can only find a basis for it in the rejuvenation of nature, in my view a poor example of the resurrection – the Meccans of Muhammad’s day probably though the same.

          I have been fair with you – I have taken your list up to a certain point – your evidence crumbles into speculation that is tried to be bolstered up by one verse in the Quran – how tragic! You need to be more even handed in dealing with the test of the Bible – try it and see how you get on.

          • Faraz:

            Dear sir, again many thanks for your reply, I ve sent you a detailed reply from my gmail but my queations are same, so Paul tells us and even jesus( I ve mentioned the verses in my detailed email about crucification) that once we die, we re resurrected then and the resurrected body is different, it s like a spirit, it will not die again, it can pass the walls, it doean t have flesh and bone, you very well know how a resurrected body is, but when Mary Magdalene went to see him, the tomb was removed, if he was spirit, the tomb doesn t required to be removed, the winding sheets were unwound, if he was spirit, the winding sheets weren t requried to unwound, as spirit can pass the walls, Jesus was disguised as a Gardner, why because he was afriad of Jews, a spirit doesn t required to be afriad as no one can touch it, no one can beat it, it can t be killed again, he was hiding, Mary Magdalene thought him as a Gardner, my question, do resurrected bodies look like gardeners, when Jesus spok Mary, she recognized him and went to him, he said touch me not, why was he a charge of electric, will he explode, why he said that, because imagine the pain he has on the cross, it was hurting him, it was his physical body, he said touch me not because if she would have touch him, it would ve hurt him, later when he went to the upper room, his disciples were afraid to see him because they thought he s a spirit, but he said behold my hands and feet as it is I myself, as the spirit has no flesh and bone, later he ask them for food and eat brolied fish and honey comb, to prove what, was he a spirit, no, to prove that he was a man, the disciples were overjpyed to see him, why because they thought that he s dead but he was standing infront of them, later tpwhen Jews ask him to show them a sign, he put all of his eggs in one basket, he didn t tell them about the blind man, the dead man he rose, the food he gave to 5000 peoples, he said that no sign shall be given to you except the sign of Jonah, as Jonah was three days and nights in the whale so shall the son of man be three days and nights in the earth, what is the sign of Jonaah, we all know, God ask him to go somewhere but he didn t went their and got o other side, so their was a storm. According to hem when someone disobey their master, their is a storm ,so they ask Jonah and he said yeah i m the one guilty, throw me, they throw him, and the whal eat him, so tell me, when they throw Jonah he was alive, when the whale eat him he was alive, when he pray inside whalr he was alive, when whale throw him out, he was alive, so Jesus gave the sign of Jonah, in order to fulfill the prophecy he must have to be alive, my references from bible are mentioned in my detail message, which i sent privately

          • admin:

            “Dear sir, again many thanks for your reply, I ve sent you a detailed reply from my gmail but my questions are same” —– But your questions are not the same – you made no response to the evidence I gave you from the New Testament about the deity of Christ rather you changed the subject to: the Bible has been changed; Prostration, Science and the Bible – so its good that you wish to return to the original the core subjects of your initial enquiry. I am still waiting for a response to the clear Gospel and New Testament explanation I gave concering the crucifixion and resurrection — perhaps I never received you detail reply. I am also still waiting to hear whether you are an Ahmadiyyan Muslim because that may well affect the way I reply to you.

            The Resurrected Body – General comments: Yes, Jesus made the announcement: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die” (John 11:25). The whole of the New Testament responds to this subject positively, those who believe have this blessed hope of a bodily resurrection when Christ returns but conversely: “those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:29). The earliest testimony of Jesus’ disciples was that he was alive and this was the message they preached from the earliest days.
            The Bible has little to say about the nature of the resurrected body. What we are told is that it is different from the natural body for it is a spiritual body (1Corinthians 15:44) – it meets the need of the spirit – there will be no marriage in heaven. It has qualities of incorruption, glory and power (1 Corinthians 15:42 ff). 1 John 3:2 and Philippians 3:21 tell the believer that their resurrected body will be like his glorious body.

            Now to address your comments directly: Hopefully this will give you a composite picture of what the New Testament is saying about the bodily resurrection.

            a) Some clarification is needed to what you say “it’s like a spirit” —— The New Testament indicates that Jesus’ risen body appears in some sense like his natural body and in some sense different: He was recognised (Matthew 28:9, John 20:19ff) but on another occasion he was not (Luke 24:16, John 21). He could appeare suddenly to his his disciples when they were shut up in a room (John 20:19), then he could just disappear (Luke 24:31).

            b) You wrote: “it doesn’ t have flesh and bone”: Luke tells us differently: “Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” (Luke 24:39)

            c) You wrote: “when Mary Magdalene went to see him, the tomb was removed, if he was spirit, the tomb doesn’t required to be removed, the winding sheets were unwound, if he was spirit, the winding sheets weren’t requried to unwound, as spirit can pass the walls” —— I suppose you meant to say the body was removed. The text reads: “Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.” (John 20:6-9) – this tells us that the linen cloths were lying there – this shows that no one had stolen the body for they would have not removed the cloth before stealing the body. It also tells us that the burial cloth which had been placed over the head of Jesus was in a separate place – these garments had been set aside for they were no longer of any use. This evidence confirmed to the disciples that he had risen: “they saw and believed”.

            d)“Jesus was disguised as a Gardner, why because he was afaid of the Jews” —- “my question, do resurrected bodies look like gardeners” —- where do you get this idea from? The text tells us “Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” (John 20:15) Mary simply did not recognise him, Often in the resurrection narratives Jesus is not immediately recognised e.g. a similar thing happened to the couple on the road to Emmaus – they were kept from recognising him: “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him” (Luke 24:16). Mark 16:12 states: “After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.”; – the disciples in the boat on the lake of Tiberias did not recognise him on the shore (John 21:4). There is not a hint that Jesus was dressed up as a gardner or that he was afraid of the Jews. The evidence simply states that sometimes Jesus was recognised (Matthew 28:9, John 20:19ff) but on other occasion he was not.

            e) “he said touch me not, why was he a charge of electric, will he explode, why he said that, because imagine the pain he has on the cross, it was hurting him, it was his physical body, he said touch me not because if she would have touch him, it would’ve hurt him, ———– this is wht the King James version: “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.” (John 20:17,18) —— did he tell Mary that if she touched him he would most likely explode or it would be too painful for him to bear the physical pain? — not at all he said “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father” quite what these words mean would involve exploring various interpretive views none of which contemplates the Ahmadiyyan view. A week afterwards Jesus invites Thomas to touch him: “Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” (John 20:27,28) – it would certainly take more than a week for pain inflicted on any individual who was crucified to be removed yet here the invitaion is given to touch. Whether touching or not touching the point is both Mary Magdalene and Thomas agreed, without any dispute that Jesus had risen. ———————— A similar event occured in Luke 24:36-42. The text tells us that this was one of his resurrection appearances following the announcement that the angels had told certain women that he had risen from the dead and the risen appearance to two men on the road to Emmaus, now he appears to his disciples saying “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” now he is inviting them to touch him he appeared in a resurrected body (appearing suddenly from nowhere) and ate food, not because he needed physical food for life beyond death (1 Corinthians 6:13) but it seems likely that the risen Christ could conform to the limitations of this physical life or not, as he chose.

            In conclusion perhaps, you could explain from the biblical text where it states Jesus was resuscitated (if that’s what you believe) and not resurrected? Were the angels wrong, were those who had been closest to him wrong, are you saying these pious Jews made it all up?

            The sign of Jonah: is not relevant at this moment as we are discussing the resurrection body.

        • admin:

          Hello Faraz
          Here is my response to your last e-mail which is far too long – I will put your comments first in inverted commas and then leave my own.
          “I’ m a keen learner” – after having a number of e-mails from you I am now begining to question this. The reason is you do not seem to take time thinking over what I have written or make any comments but you go off on a tangent about a different subject for example rather than deal with the verses about the crucifixion I sent you you prefer to discuss new subjects: has the Bible been changed, Prostration and The Bible and Science — what happened to your interest in Jesus Christ and the Trinity? We are not through on these yet. I would like to know what you think of my responses for this is supposed to be a two-way discussion. I welcome you being respectful but respect begins with hearing the other persons view point and so far this you have not done. You never told me whether you were an Ahmediyyan Muslim or not?

          “Well sir, my questions are still their, if Jesus would’ve been dead, he would’ve been resurrected” – the resurrection of the body does feature in the New Testament but the issue we were talking about, the one you wanted to talk about not me, was the crucifixion – what do you do with all those verse that I sent you confirming that Jesus died and rose again?

          Trinity: Yes, I think I should make some comments about this. You are right the word Trinity does not occur in the Bible, it is used by Christians because over the centuries they have thought careful about the implications of Jesus’ miraculous birth, his sinless life, his authority over nature; his authority to forgive sins, his resurrection and ascension into heaven, his claim to be one with the Father, his claim to have come from the Father, his claim that he will return and judge the living and the dead etc. Realising these things accepted he was the divine son of God and along with this that the Holy Spirit was also a divine being, they used the word ‘Trinity’ – “triunity” to explain the work of God in bringing out salvation and contemplated on the office of these persons. To many later generations the term Trinity has not been at all helpful and has led to confusion. So the term ‘Trinity’ is a theological concept similar to the use of Tawhid in Islam which seeks to describe that Allah is one God. As far as I am aware this Arabic word is not found in the Quran but you can correct me if I am wrong. Just as Tawhid explains what Muslims believe about Allah so the Trinity does virtually the same thing; it explains our understanding about God. – Trinity means one God – three persons are divine and eternal.
          This is why I have given you verses which speak of the deity of Jesus Christ which comes to the fore after the resurrection when he was declared to be the Son of God. The verse you concentrate on relate to his humiliation and subjection to the limits of manhood – all that changed after the resurrection but you seem to struggle with this view. Let me quote again some verses “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.” (John 1:14-16). Near the end of his gospel John explains why he wrote this gospel: “But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.” (John 20:31) —- but you refuse to acknowledge Jesus is the Son of God and God incarnate.

          Prostration: “every prophet was used to pray like we do, bowing in front of God” Thank you for all the verses showing that men frim time to time fell on their faces before God. That is not in question nor ever has – what is in question is your suggestion the verses you supplied are an Islamic form of worship.
          As far as the New Testament is concerned the Greek word used is ‘prospipto’ (pipto =fall/ pros = towards) so it means falling towards anything for example Mark 3:11 “ And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.” – well if you want to be consistent you need to recognise evil spirits, who know the spirit world realised who he was – its a shame you do not!

          Again if you want to be consistent you will want to fall down at the feet of Jesus as the following women did: “But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.” (Mark 5:33) or again “For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet” (Mark 7:25) – I hope you get my point – according to you this means prostration so they were prostrating before Jesus – this is not my argument but yours!

          Rather than go through each verse you have mentioned it seems more sensible to look at how people in the Bible prayed and worshipped. Yes, for sure there were times when believers fell on their faces before God and you have provided some good examples. However, it is not as simple and straightforward as that what you are doing is following the same pattern that you have done before by selecting verses that you think justify Islam and ignore those verses that create difficulty for Islam.
          So as far as prayer and worship is concerned in the Bible there are multiple ways worshippers behaved. Principally, praying occurs in a lovely directness and familiarity with God and often posture is not mentioned at all.(Genesis 15:2ff); sometimes it is associated with sacrifice (Genesis 13:4). Along with this we have in no particular order, lifting up eyes to heaven and praying (John 17:1); lifting up holy hands (1 Timothy 2:8); kneeling and praying (Luke 21:42,43, Daniel 6:10, Acts 9:40, Acts 20:36, Isaiah 45:23, Romans 14:11, Philippians 4:10); sitting bfore God (2 Samuel 7:18); bowing and kneeling (Psalm 95:6); standing and spreading out hands (2Chronicles 6:12,13). —– You will see there is great variety I the postures of worshippers in the Bible. Ther is nothing remotely resembling the practice of sajadat and as you know the sajadat is only one aspect of the salat and such salat’s do not exist in the Bible despite the Quranic claim.

          As far as the scientific debate concerning the Bible and the Quran, interesting though it is, it is such an enormous subject. You may feel as though you are a scientist and can speak for the scientific community but my scientific knowledge is very limited. However, I will take your comments and may re-produce them on our web-site sometime in the future.

  • Eric Bruno:

    I guess u have to email me…coz I have a lot to discuss with you..Admin

  • Eric bruno:

    Islam attributes anyone who had a link from Abraham to Ishmael’s generation to be a prophet. The fact that Abraham had an encounter with God doesn’t make him a prophet and likewise Ismael and Isaac.

    To answer this, we must first ask ourselves 1. Who is a prophet? 2.Who is a messenger ? 3. Is a messenger the same as a prophet? 4. What’s the difference between a messenger and a prophet?

    Let start with who a messenger is. A messenger is some one who is being sent to deliver a message. A messenger is purposed to deliver messages. God had both human messenger as well as inhuman messengers. Examples of the human messengers are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Inhuman messengers as their names suggest, are what the Qur’an referred to as mal’akh (which in English is means Angel’s). Examples are angel Gabriel (mal’akh ghabriyil in Arabic) and other Angel’s named
    2. A prophet. While a messenger is to deliver messages, that of the prophet is quiet different and with just a few similarities (difference). A prophet gives prophecy (they tell what will happen in the next future, performs miracles, delivers messages, and teaches. Example of prophets are… Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Ezekiel. Apart from delivering messages which is the similarity between messenger and prophet, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob do not fit the other descriptions. Why be coz they never spoke of the future and the other matters listed above.

    On the basis of this, I hope it has now been stated that prophets are different from messengers. Abraham, Jacob, Isaac are not prophets but rather, they are messengers. My dear Moslems, Mohammed got it wrong when giving the description of a messenger to a prophet. There is much more to say but I will conclude here.

    • admin:

      You are correct to bring out the distinction between prophets and messengers in Islam. It is a distinction worked out by Muslim theologians. A prophet (nabi) is said to have received the highest form of inspiration (wahi), but is not necessarily required to deliver the message. An apostle (rasul) receives the same form of inspiration but is commanded by God to deliver the message to men. The apostles then, were messengers of God who had been sent to peoples of the past. Islam claims that there were be nine special messengers (rasul): Nuh, Ibrahim, Daud, Yaqub, Yusuf, Ayyub, Musa, ‘Isa and Muhammad all were said to bring new laws which successively abrogated the preceding revelation. The difference between rasul and nabi is not always clear.

      Only a minority of individuals called prophets in the Quran are so described in the Bible. The lists of the prophets in the Quran do not follow a chronological order and his understanding of them seems confused. Muslims often accuse Christians of depracating the prophets as the Bible records their sins and failures such as lying or adultery; there are no such allegations made against such prophets as Enoch, Elijah, Joseph and Daniel. However, it remains true that deficiency resides in man, God alone is perfect. Man by contrast has short-comings and he who has virtues still has sinful tendencies.

      God chose certain prophets to convey his message and guided them by the Holy Spirit in truth: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20, 21)

    • admin:

      You are correct to bring out the distinction between prophets and messengers in Islam. It is a distinction worked out by Muslim theologians. A prophet (nabi) is said to have received the highest form of inspiration (wahi), but is not necessarily required to deliver the message. An apostle (rasul) receives the same form of inspiration but is commanded by God to deliver the message to men. The apostles then, were messengers of God who had been sent to peoples of the past. Islam claims that there were be nine special messengers (rasul): Nuh, Ibrahim, Daud, Yaqub, Yusuf, Ayyub, Musa, ‘Isa and Muhammad all were said to bring new laws which successively abrogated the preceding revelation. The difference between rasul and nabi is not always clear.

      Only a minority of individuals called prophets in the Quran are so described in the Bible. The lists of the prophets in the Quran do not follow a chronological order and his understanding of them seems confused. Muslims often accuse Christians of deprecating the prophets as the Bible records their sins and failures such as lying or adultery; there are no such allegations made against such prophets as Enoch, Elijah, Joseph and Daniel. However, it remains true that deficiency resides in man, God alone is perfect. Man by contrast has short-comings and he who has virtues still has sinful tendencies.

      God chose certain prophets to convey his message and guided them by the Holy Spirit in truth: “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (2 Peter 1:20, 21)

    • Faraz:

      Dear brother, Mohammed was a prophet, that’s what he said, if you are a Christian or a Jew let me tell you from your books, Deutoromy 18 18:O people of Israel your Lord will raise a prophet like me amongst your brothers and he will put His words in his mouth. So let’s analyse this, that prophet will not be a Jew and not a descendants of Isaac, instead it will be from their brother’s meaning Ishamel, from which Holy prophet was. Secondly he’ll be like Moses, Mohammed and Moses both got married and have children, Jesus didn’t, both migrated, Jesus didn’t, both win Spiritual as well as Physical victories as the defeat of pharaoh and the conquest of Makkah, both were the kings of their state, Jesus said that my kingdom isn t foe this world, both bring new laws, Jesus only come to fulfull the previous laws, as he says: think not I ve come here to destroy any law or prophet but to fulfill, both have natural birth and death’s, Jesus didn t, Mohammed wasn’t learned, so whenever he got a revelation he would tell his people exactly, – this fulfills the third prophecy, that He put his words in his mouth, Isaiah told us that when the book will be brought to him, he’ll say that I’m not learned, that’s exactly what Mohammed said when the first revelation was brought to him.

      As it comes to new testament, when Jesus was asked about Elijah, he said John the baptist is Elijah. When they went to John, they asked three questions, are thou Christ, he say no, are thou Elijah, he say no. So we leave it to Christians who was right because we Muslims believe no messanger or prophet can be wrong. The third and most important thing was are thou that prophet, he again said no, that tells us that the prophet and Messiah will be different people, not same.

      The Gospel of John chapter no 16 verse no 12 to 14: I’ve yet many things to say unto you, but ye can’t bare them now for when he the spirit of truth shall come, he shall guide you unto all truth, he shall not speak of his own, he shall say what he hears, he shall glorify me. Christian say it’s the holy spirit but how can it be, for spirit we all know that the word it is used, not he, but here it clearly says, he.

      Secondly the comforter will come, he’s not in this world yet, for when he the spirit of truth shall come, but the Holy spirit was already in this world at the time of Elizabeth, John the baptist, other verses tell us that Jesus says that I’ll ask the father to send you a comforter who shall abide with you forever, so the word for comforter in original text is paraclikos meaning praise worthy, which in Arabic is Ahmed, tThe second name of Mohammed, he will abide with you forever, Allah says in Quran, that Holy prophet is the last Prophet and Messanger pf Allah, their shall not be any prophet after him, his teachings will be followed and remain with you till eternity.

      When it comes to Deutoromy 18 19, it says that people ask that how shall we know that he’s the prophet which Moses speaks of it will be that his prophecies shall be fulfilled. Mohammed, told us about Saddam Hussain, 9/11 attack, that Muslims will defeat world powers, at that time they were Persian and Byzantine, both were defeated by Muslims, he told us about the fighting in Syria, he told us that the moon does not have it s own light, but it s reflected light; it has been confirmed by scientists now, he tells us that Universe came into existance throught big bang and it’s expanding, it has been confirmed plus their are thousands more, 80 percent of what he told us about prophecies and science has been fulfilled and are 100 percent right, the rest of the 20 percent are neither right nor wrong because the science isn’t so advanced at the moment; believe me it will one day be confirmed. Quran says that if you question the prophet, try to write a book like this. The Quran is a really advanced book and no one can write such a book 1400 years ago.

      Sir If you want ro discuss Christianity with me, you are most welcome to message me on my gmail faraz.aj.21742@gmail.com, I can prove you through Bible how the Trinity is wrong, how Jesus wasn’t the begotten Son of God and how Mohammed was a prophet. I’m 15 years old muslim guy but I’ ve read the whole Bible, both new and old testament, I’ ve read the protestant books, King James and new revised edition, and I’ve debates with two experienced Christianity scholars and they can’t answer my questions

      • admin:

        Good to hear from you Faraz I will send you a separate reply to your e-mail as you requested and it will include this response we have placed on our web-site. It is great to see a young man so enthusiastic about his faith – there will be much to discuss if you so desire. However, please keep to one subject at a time otherwise the e-mails get far too long – short as possible please. If you want to discuss your thoughts about Islamic prophecy of the last times please do so on the relevant section – ‘Muslim Doctrines: Muslim Doctrine of Last Times.’.

        If you would like to look at our article ‘Muhammad in the Bible” under our Apologetic section you will be able to understand how Christian’s respond to this question. You will also read about how we respond to this idea of analogy between Muhammad and Jesus Christ. You will hopefully see that such reasoning is quite honestly is nonsense – so please take time to read this through and let us have your thoughts.

        You will also see attached to the article ‘Apologetics’: ‘Muhammad in the Bible’ a section on the subject ‘A Prophet like unto me’ – this article covers your questions about the text Deuteronomy 18:18. You will discover that the phrase “ your Lord will raise a prophet like me from amongst your brethren” refers distinctly to Jews – the Jews are the brethren; this is confirmed when an almost identical statement is made about Israel’s future king in Deuteronomy 17:15 “he must be from amongst your brethren.” The text has nothing to do with the line of Ishmael but the line of Isaac through whom came both the prophets and the kings, not to mention the priests. Again, please make your further comments in this section.

        Other areas you mentioned can only be briefly mentioned here:

        Isaiah: Your reference from Isaiah needs to be substantiated – if you are referring to Luke 4: 14-22 there is no mention of the one of whom he speaks being ‘unlearned ‘.

        Moses: far from being uneducated was brought up in the house of Pharaoh and educated according to Egyptian wisdom – he was unlike Muhammad well able to write; the scripture affirms this “Moses wrote all the words of the Lord” (Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 31:9).

        Elijah (Matthew 17:10-12): —- this can get rather complicated and technical but as with all of scripture needs to be set in context. Here, we find Jesus’ disciples not knowing how to answer the scribes objection that Elijah must come before the Messiah. This is how the scribes interpreted Malachi 4:5. They believed that Elijah would restore all things to bring about a state of justice and true worship. Yet, Jesus had told his disciples that he would be killed – how could the Messiah be killed if Elijah had returned and established a just and perfect society? Jesus approves the teaching of the scribes but insists another factor must be taken into account namely, John the Baptist has come in succession of the Old Testament prophets who were persecuted and even killed. The scribes and many Jewish leaders rejected John — Jesus’ point is general: the baptist (Elijah) did fulfill his mission but he was killed in doing it. In the same way the Son of man is going to suffer at their hands.

        paraclikos meaning praise worthy: the Greek word in the New Testament text to which you refer is ‘paraklesis’ which means ‘a calling to one’s side (based on the term para =beside and kaleo = to call). Besides being a false translation, this spirit of truth we are told, “lives with you and shall be and shall be in you” (John 14:16) so it is impossible that this refers to Muhammad.

  • Alif:

    Is the point of this article that Isma’el wasn’t a prophet in the Quran, hadeth?
    That’s palpably foolish: Wikipedia reads:In Islamic thought Lineage of six prominent prophets according to Islamic tradition: Adam, Nūḥ (Noah), Ibrāhīm (Abraham), Ismāʿīl (Ishmael), Iṣḥāq (Isaac) Mūsa (Moses), Maryam (Mary), ʿĪsā (Jesus), Abdul-Muttalib, Muhammad The article supplies dotted lines to indicate multiple generations.
    Ishmael is considered a prophet in Islam and is listed in the Quran with other prophets in many instances.In other verses, such as 21:5-86 and 38:48,Ishmael is praised for being patient, good, and righteous.[18] A particular example which describes Ishmael individually is 19:54-55 – “And call to mind, through this divine writ, Ishmael. Behold, he was always true to his promise, and was an apostle [of God], a prophet, who used to enjoin upon his people prayer and charity, and found favour in his Sustainer’s sight.” — As a descendant of Ishmael, Muhammad is justified as the Prophet and continues the line of prophets from pre-Islamic times. There’s no need to lie for your kerygma’s sake. Raymund Lull – never mind Christ – must be deeply embarrassed. (Spelling at places edited).

    • admin:

      Yes, the Wikipidea article states that “In Islamic thought” Ishmael is a prophet but that is not in agreement with the Biblical teaching. All the article is repeating is the Islamic view of the prophetic line. Interestingly in its final stages it moves away from ‘Isa to Abdul-Muttalib, the pagan grandfather of Muhammad. Muhammad’s grandfather took care of Muhammad when he became an orphan. Although over 80 and an important person from the Hashim line and devoted to his grandson he being a pagan has no place in the prophetic line; neither does Ishmael.

  • please mail your future understandings about Islam

  • Martha:

    I ‘ve read about the prophetic line at the alquran than translated into the indonesian language as it is expossed by the faithfreedom indonesia.

    That verses of alquran is like this : QS 29-27
    TIDAK ADA NABI SELAIN ISRAEL ” ia itu keturunan Ibrahim/Ishaq/Ya’akub.

    (TIDAK ADA = No/None/There is no) (NABI = Prophet or Prophetic) (SELAIN = Other Than )

    (SELAIN ISRAEL = Other than israel)
    (” ia itu keturunan Ibrahim/Ishaq/Ya’akub = That is Abraham/Issac/Jacob “)

    Tq & Have a nice day.

  • Liza:

    Thank you for this article. I have friends and neighbors that are Muslim and I am curious as to their beliefs. I can not have dialogue with them because they seem to get so flustered and intense about discussing their religion, their beliefs. Especially when I ask about the hadiths a day history of Medina and the spread of Islam. They say that it was only in defense yet history repeats itself with the slaughter of Christians and nonchristians in Syria and this is mimicking the behavior of Muhammed and how Islam was spread. Also the slaughter of Armenians, the Ottomon Empire and so on yet they say it was “only in defense”. As we can clearly see because of Mass Media and Videos now, ISIL are slaughters and mimicking Muhammed. They can’t lie anymore.

    • admin:

      These things will inevitably arise in our discussions with Muslims but, while not completely disregarding these things, may I encourage you to give them a portion of scripture. Perhaps a gospel could be given for them to read, it will centre on the importance of salvation rather than on these other issues. It may well be that they will give you literature in return but at least you will be entering into meaningful relationships.

  • time:

    So according to your understanding of the Old/New Testament you are here telling us that “neither Ismail nor Isaac are prophets” and Mohammad made up the Quran from the Bible (for he couldn’t read or write) and he wrongly ascribe Ismail and Isaac with the office of a prophet. OK, please tell me what is the Jewish belief about Christ as they are carrying the covenant according to your belief? According to your theory what happened to the prophetic line after Christ? Are you try to tell us that you can understand what Quran means more than Arab scholars? I think the topic here is covered and I appreciate your advice and will read the other topic and see what’s up there. Thank you for giving me the chance to discuss these things and I have to tell you that you are patient and tolerant with my awful English.
    Regards

    • admin:

      Its good to be able to discuss these things in a civilised and humble way. I realise English is not your mother tongue but I thank you for your efforts. I have had to edit certain parts, but your overall argument has been clear throughout. I had to edit the first two sentences in this e-mail and I hope that I have portrayed your meaning correctly.
      On the matter of the questions you raised 1. Jesus Christ taught that the message of the Old Testament prophets concerning the coming of Christ found its fulfilment in him: “And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem” (Luke 24:44-47)”
      2. It would take a long time to discuss the matter as to why the the Jews rejected Jesus as being the Christ. It may be better for the Jews themselves to explain their position. 3. I am not suggesting in the slightest that “you can understand what the Quran means more than Arab scholars” I am merely pointing out that the teaching of the Bible leaves no room for the place of Ishmael as a prophet and Muhammad, likewise, does not follow in the line of Biblical prophets.

  • time:

    you didn’t explain your statement ” 4) Ishmael is not called a prophet in the Old/New Testament because he was not a prophet; likewise Isaac was not called a prophet because he was not a prophet” don’t you consider them both as a prophets??

    The Quran revealed that the previous revelations had been misrepresented and distorted in too many verses including 1/75 & 4/13 and a lot of other verses but i don’t want to put a long list

    * (Hebrews 1:1,2). is not answering the Question, it refers to something that can be explained in too many different ways, so the question is still unanswered – P.S: my reply had been edited unfairly

    • admin:

      Islam considers that both Isaac and Ishmael were prophets. Neither Jews, nor Christians have ever ascribed that title to Isaac (or for that matter Ishmael). The status of prophet-hood has been misunderstood by Muhammad when he tried to grasp the teaching of the Bible.

      The quotations from the Quran you mention do not support your argument of a corrupted scripture, and are discussed in our articles on the Authority of the Bible. After reading these articles, please leave your comments.

      Hebrew 1:1,2 explains that God spoke to the fathers by the prophets – the point being, the prophets spoke to the Jews of an earlier generation who were under the covenant. After the rift with Sara, Ishmael left the family home, only returning to help his brother bury their father showing that Ishmael never had a prophetic ministry to the covenant people.
      P. S. Only where your English has been unclear or unnecessary long has any alteration been made to your comments.

  • time:

    I have a final thing to say as I guess that this topic in nearly covered. You are judging the Quran as it conflicts with the previous scriptural revelations; while the Quran itself indicates that the previous revelations have been misrepresented and distorted by the hand of misguided people through the ages. Really i can’t notice any kind of logic in this judgement. Do you have any evidence that god “must” choose his messengers (forever) through one line and couldn’t choose another one???? If yes show it to me, and if no, your theory is then collapsing.

    • admin:

      Yes, it is right to judge the Quran by what has already been revealed in the previous scriptures. If they do not agree then something is badly amiss. Your suggestion “that the previous revelations has been misrepresented and distorted by the hand of misguided people through the age” is not supported by the Quran but that is another matter. In respect of God’s sovereign choice of chosen messengers scripture teaches that God called Israel to be his people and sent them his prophets. In the words of the New Testament says: “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds” (Hebrews 1:1,2).

  • time:

    After quoting Genesis 17:1-14 the respondent continues: now notice that
    1) the general covenant had been given to Ibrahim and his offspring, and a second to his generations (including Ismail), 2) for some reason Ismail must be taken out from the context so he needs a special speech that refers to Isaac as a favorable son because he is not the son of the slave-girl.3) The Quran declares Ismail is a prophet, 4) neither The Old Testament nor the New Testament declare that Ismail is (not) a prophet. 5) you are trying to tell us that Quran Fabricates the prophecy of Ismail while it’s clear like the sun in Quran that he is a prophet and the covenant that given to Ibrahim offspring according to “Genesis” includes Ismail … so what is the nearest conception to the LOGIC? The Quran is consistent with his context and declares that Ismail is a prophet.

    • admin:

      1)There was one covenant established which was between God, Abraham and his seed (Genesis 17:7). 2) Although Ishmael will be come a great nation (Genesis 17:20) the covenant will be established with Isaac through Sarah(Genesis 17:19, 21). 3) The Quran is therefore wrong in declaring that Ishmael is a prophet for he was not included in the covenant promises while the biblical prophets were. 4) Ishmael is not called a prophet in the Old/New Testament because he was not a prophet; likewise Isaac was not called a prophet because he was not a prophet. 5) The Quran is wrong and this is just one example. Yes, it may be consistent to its own story-line but it conflicts with the previous scriptural revelations in this and other matters.

  • time:

    OK, that is much clearer now, so let’s summarize your point 1) Ismail’s revelation is not clear in Quran and it does not support the spread of the religion of Ibrahim. 2)Ismail is not a prophet cause the covenant with Ibrahim is continued through Isaac, and that is what you express as “Ismail is not found in the prophetic line.

    The first point applies to all the prophets not only Ismail because the Quran generally concentrates on the historical events and the stories summarize their lessons and warnings. Islam considers that all prophets and messengers are sent with the same message (monotheism) with a slight difference in legislation according to the humanitarian need of the time, so it’s not about Ismail, it’s about the prophetic experiment as a system in the holy Quran .

    2)I want you to say directly “Ismail is not a prophet of god” cause I’ll prove from both Bible and Torah that the contrary of that theory is quietly right.

    • admin:

      1)On the wider question of the prophets Islam believes that there were 124,000 and of the 28 that appear in the Quran a large number are not considered prophets according to the Bible. In Islam they are proponents of monotheism while in the Bible they have additional roles such as bring back an erring people to the covenant. The aspect of them presenting “the same message with a slight differences in legislation according to the humanitarian need in every time” is a position not found in the Bible.
      2)According to the teaching of the Bible Ishmael is not a prophet of God along with other Quranic candidates like Adam, Hud, Lot, Shu’aib, Zechariah, Uzair, Zu’l-Qarnain etc. I look forward to hearing your defence concerning the prophetic defence of Ishmael.

  • time:

    I really don’t understand the point of this article, but from the the second reply the admin said : “The point of the article is to show that the Quran is in agreement with the Taurat on this particular subject i.e. that no gift of prophecy or revelation lies in the seed of Ishmael and so therefore Muhammad has no claim to the biblical prophetic line.” I don’t know how could you reach to this conclusion by saying that Quran didn’t mentioned Ismail in some verses???!!!!! OK the Quran didn’t mention him in some verses but mentioned him in others…. where is the point ??? For example the Quran mentioned Isaac and Jacob about 16 times from these 16 times Ismail mentioned 6 times in the context, and you try to tell us that the Quran should have mentioned Ismail in the 16 times to make us sure that the prophet line is ok???? The same thing with Ismail he is mentioned in the Quran about 12 times, 6 of these times with Ibraham or other prophets, so what could this do to the prophet line with the same way of thinking?
    What the Quran says is that, God choose whoever he wants where he wants and when he wants God can choose from offspring of anyone if he wants to send a messenger.

    • admin:

      Yes, that’s a fair point thank you for your comments. Yes, there are a number of verses in the Quran that mention Ishmael. They state that he received revelation 2:136, 3:84, 4:163, while 19:54,55 calls him a messenger and prophet who “used to enjoin on his people prayer and charity, and he was most acceptable in the sight of his Lord.” In some places he is associated with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes while in other places his name is linked with Elisha, Jonah and Lot; Idris and Zu’l-kifi. He is also said to have helped his father Abraham build the Ka’abah (Al-Baqarrah 2:127).

      While Islam views Ishmael as a prophet both the Quran and Tradition fail to explain the substance of Ishmael’s revelation, nor is it explained how it is related to the spread of the religion of Abraham. The Traditions concentrate on other factors like acknowledging that his mother was Hagar; that there was a feud between Hagar and Sarah; that he was involved in digging the foundations of the Ka’abah and other related non-biblical stories.

      The Bible explains both the substance and the context of the life of Ishamael who gradually disappears from the picture as the covenant with Abraham is continued through Isaac. In other words Ishmael is not found to be in the prophetic line.

  • Dave Biddle:

    This article was extremely interesting.

    “Present day Muslims hold that it was Ishmael, and not Isaac, who was offered for sacrifice. however, there are a variety of opinions. Amongst those that held it was Isaac who was offered were the chief Companions: Umar, Ali, Abbas, Ibn Masud, Ka’b the Jew, and eight others.”

    That is powerful. It really opens the reader to the validity of the well-presented case you made!

    Thank you!

    Jesus is Lord, Savior, Christ, Judge, Son of God, Creator and He is my Friend!

    • admin:

      Thank you. Perhaps you could share with us the sources you have which state that “Umar, Ali, Abbas, Ibn Masud, Ka’b the Jew, and eight others” believed Isaac was the one who was sacrificed.

  • Knowledge:

    You are disproving Muhammad is not a Prophet using the Quran. This does not make sense.

    It results in picking a choosing to support your claims while disregarding other verses which blatantly tell he was a Prophet.

    I don’t think this is a sincere/honest approach at knowing the truth.

    • admin:

      The point of the article is to show that the Quran is in agreement with the Taurat on this particular subject i.e. that no gift of prophecy or revelation lies in the seed of Ishmael and so therefore Muhammad has no claim to the biblical prophetic line. If he has no claim he cannot be the last and final prophet ‘the seal of the prophets’. This contrary to your suggestion is in fact a sincere and honest examination of the Quran on this subject.

      The source of Muhammad’s claim to be a prophet lies not in his spiritual ancestry in the line of the prophets of the Old Testament but in a completely different area. One of the reasons the Arabs believed Muhammad was a prophet was the evidence of a mole of an unusual size on Muhammad’s back, this lump they believed was a divine seal predicted in scripture. Just as this prediction is absent in scripture so likewise there are no predictions of any prophet coming from the line of Ishmael.

    • tracee:

      Speaking of honest approaches, it would seem that Islam and Muslims have that same attitude. Why is it wrong for a Christian to cherry-pick vs out of the Quran but yet a Muslim can pick any vs they want out of the Bible, place it out of context, make their own doctrine, then call the rest of it corrupted. We’re just learning from the best that’s all.

  • truthseeker:

    thank you. This provided me with much needed clarity on the Ishmael/Isaac debate.

Leave a Reply